Pastor Ernie’s Presentation: UMC Discernment
How The United Methodist Church got here
Ever since the merger of two denominations in 1968 there has been a theological divide between conservative and progressive thinking. Every four years the United Methodist Church meets in a general global assembly and votes on changes to social principles, doctrine and polity, though it is very difficult to change the doctrine or polity. For the last several assemblies, there has been a growing voice to reconsider traditional social principles on the church’s stance concerning homosexuality, marriage, and
ordination. Paragraph 304 of the current Book of Discipline of the United Methodist Church states, “self-avowed practicing homosexuals are not to be certified as candidates, ordained as ministers, or appointed to serve The United Methodist Church.” Paragraph 340 states, “Ceremonies that celebrate homosexual unions shall not be conducted by our ministers and shall not be conducted in our churches.” In 2019 the general assembly met and voted to retain the traditional language as stated in the 2016 Book of Discipline. There was great upheaval over this vote and the general conference voted to create a graceful exit opportunity for churches and pastors to leave the denomination and retain their
property. There is a “trust clause” for United Methodist Churches which states that all property belongs to the denomination and not the local church, making it almost impossible for churches to leave the denomination. This trust clause was removed and Paragraph 2553 passed legislation and the churches had a way to exit. There is a sunset clause in this paragraph of December 31, 2023.
Almost immediately, a number of Bishops, including the bishop of the Florida Conference, declared they would not bring charges against pastors performing homosexual weddings and they would not be leaving the denomination. The response from conservative leaders was swift. Several leaders began to form a new denomination that would retain the original language on this issue and give local churches an option to the United Methodist Church. More traditional minded churches and pastors have been joining this new Global Methodist Church which launched in 2022 and there are now thousands of churches in the denomination. The conservative churches are using paragraph 2553 to retain property.
The denomination has established a fair exit formula to arrive at a cost for each local church to exit.
The theological issue: Do we want to retain the existing language concerning homosexual marriage and ordination or are we ok having that change? As a compromise, the Florida conference has agreed to covenant with the local church and only appoint pastors who agree with where the local church stands on this. Many conservatives are unsure the conference will uphold the covenant since the bishops have already broken the existing covenant and concluded their only option is to leave the denomination.
A further theological issue is found in the question “Why homosexuality? Why this one thing?” That is an excellent question. There is a lot of Biblical evidence that people who get divorced should not remarry and so why not ban remarriage, or ordination for remarried people? There is Biblical support for only men being leaders in the church. Why not ban women from ordination, which is the current hot topic in the Southern Baptist Convention? There is Biblical support for not incurring debt, why not ban pastors who have a mortgage or school loans? Good questions but not the question being thrust upon us.
Before we determine what the Bible says about this, we should determine if what the Bible says matters. Both sides of the issue want to maintain Biblical authority for their thinking and almost certainly one has to be wrong and the other right or perhaps both could be wrong. There are only a few verses that pertain to this and we should look at the argument for a couple of these. To retain Biblical authority, the progressive thinkers have developed a “new hermeneutic.” This thinking places Biblical statements into three “buckets.” One bucket is for timeless truth, those statements of the Scriptures that have always been true and will always be true. The second bucket is for statements that were true
in a certain time but no longer apply today. And the third bucket is for statements that never were true and should be excised. The key question to this methodology is “Who decides what goes where?” And the answer reveals the issue. “We do,” say the progressives. In essence, progressive theologians only need to include as truth those scriptures that substantiate their view of truth. And of course, the issue for traditional thinkers is that there are a whole lot of Scriptures that have been set aside already and
simply not discussed, like whether or not woman should wear a head covering. So quite honestly, both sides of this issue are a bit disingenuous when it comes to seeing the Bible as a source of truth.
Biblical narrative
First, in Genesis God creates men and women and says what He has created is very good. The very first story in the Bible sets a standard for human relationships and sexuality. God creates men and women as men and women, and from the beginning men are created to be in relationship with women and women with men. This became the standard for all of human history until recently. The ideal is set from the very beginning and all else that falls short of the ideal is sin.
Second, Jesus never says anything against homosexuality. Correct. However, He does uphold the ideal for marriage as between a man and a woman when he proclaims divorce as a sin in Matthew 18. In Mark 10:6-9 Jesus again affirms that marriage in its ideal state is between one man and one woman, a monogamous relationship for life and the foundation of the family and of civilization.
Third, Paul has a lot to say about this. First, he declares that the body is a temple of the Holy Spirit and should be treated as holy and with respect. This proclamation is in 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 within the thought about how sexuality should be something pure and holy. This is immediately followed with examples of how the Corinthians are failing, including failed marriages and remarriage and how sexuality is not holy for many even within the bonds of traditional marriages. The passage includes a condemnation of homosexuality.
The second place Paul talks about homosexuality at length is in Romans 1 where it is included in a list of vices and expounded upon in some detail where Paul proclaims that homosexuality is evidence that God has given humans over to their sin. “Because of this God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.” Romans 1:26-27
Traditionalists read these passages and conclude homosexuality is a sin. Progressives read these passages and conclude first that the ancient world did not understand gender and that this passage is actually talking about prostitutional sex or the ancient custom of pedantry, men having sex with boys. When it is pointed out that Paul never mentions boys but says men and does not mention this as prostitutional sex, progressives are forced to say that the overarching theme of God is forgiveness and God forgives all sin. “All means all.” The divide, though, is not about forgiveness but about sin. Is this a sin? Of course, all sin is forgiven if it is met with repentance. “‘All means all” cannot stand in light of the
justice God promises and endangers the cross because it says that which is sin is not sin and then opens the door to glorify that which is ungodly. Such thinking eliminates the need for redemption of sin by the cross. Because the Bible cannot clearly uphold the progressive position on these passages, the conclusion is that this has never been true and should be excised from the Bible and we need to focus attention of the overwhelming number of verses that speak of God’s love and mercy without mention of the overwhelming number of verses that state God hates sin.
How did Wesley get involved in this?
In 2019 there was a general conference specifically about this issue and the protocol for disaffiliation was brought forward. Several here at Wesley knew what was happening and asked what we were going to do as a church. I approached the board and we all agreed we would do nothing. In 2020, the General Conference to officially adopt the protocol was postponed to the fall because of Covid and then postponed again. Conservative leaders reacted to the Council of Bishops refusing to uphold the covenant on this and began a new denomination. The Global Methodist Church was officially launched in 2022. This new denomination had lots of questions surrounding it, so leadership here at Wesley
affirmed the decision not to act.
Earlier this year, Bay Hope announced they were disaffiliating and forming a loose connection of independent churches. I asked leadership if they wanted to have information about this and they appointed a task force to go with me and talk with the leadership of Bay Hope. I returned and presented the information to leadership and they were interested in pursuing what this might look like. Even the task force was split on whether or not this was a good idea. I began working to get some numbers in place, created a possible time line, and began looking into insurance costs, polity and structure.
Leadership took a vote on whether or not to proceed and it was split right down the middle. I went to Emily and asked her what to do and invited her here to talk with us.
Leadership’s job is to discern about whether or not to bring this to a church vote.
What else do we need to know?
Options: stay UMC or disaffiliate:
options moving forward should we disaffiliate:
- Global Methodist Church,
- Connect with several independent churches (Bay Hope is one)
Voting process: The DS will set the date, members can vote in person only, 67% super majority to leave,
paper ballots
Cost, due December 31
2 years of apportionment 2 x 29,913
Pension liability as of Jan 1, 2023 62,834
Conference attorney fees 4,000
Wesley attorney fees ?
Cost to remove cross and flame ? not minimal, look at the gym
Other costs: legal fees to set up a non-profit. I am in touch with a lawyer but have not engaged him yet.
If we go with the Global Methodist Church, they have all of this already and the fees will be less.
Total cost 2 x apportionment 59,826
Pension liability 62,834
Known legal fees 4,000
Legal fees (not finalized until we decide what we are doing, less if we choose
Global Methodist Church)
Campus renovation ?
Total known fees $126,660
Credits 29,913 2023 apportionment paid in full 2024 apportionment is in the bank
Total credits $29,913
Amount we need to pay Dec 31. $96,747
$29,913 must be paid in cash
$4,000 conference legal fees up front
$62,834 cash or add to our existing loan
? Other legal fees
? Remove cross and flame
*Insurance is to be paid in full regardless of what we do and is not included above.
Balance on current property insurance 38,038.72 current annual premium is 48,986.32 and this will need to be paid regardless of what we do.
New policy (there will be two more quotes) This is from Guide One thru Church Insure as a policy should we become independent. It will be less should we join the Global Methodist Church
commercial property $45,071
workman’s comp $8,608
auto $357
umbrella liability $3,263
total $57.299
What do I think?
First, I never have thought the issue was homosexuality but an ever-widening gap we see in our culture that has infiltrated the church. I do not think God cares about this. I do not believe He cares about the institutional church or what church bumper sticker is on our car. God’s institutional covenant with Israel ended at the cross and the new covenant is personal. Now I am responsible for my own soul and not for yours. You should go with your soul on this and not the party line. If your soul is being fed here at Wesley as we study the word and work together in service to the community, then stay. If it is not, then leave. If that changes with a leadership change in the future, deal with it personally then. I do not
believe Jesus asked Brenda why she became a United Methodist. Do not think He cares.
Second, I believe we are teaching our children how God’s people deal with real conflict. We are being a witness and they are watching. Many of us have deep divides with our parents or children but we would never want them to leave.
Third, the institutional church is flawed and led by flawed people. No institution is exempt from this. No matter where we land there will be issues. Institutional leaders make mistakes and so do I. Whenever I use their mistakes to take the moral or spiritual high ground, I fail my own soul. God has a way of turning things loose to see what remnant remains. I think the task for us is to seek soul renewal and unity, to offer ourselves as a living sacrifice and I think we need to do this regardless of how this plays out.
Fourth, for some this is the line in the sand. If that is what your soul is telling you, then find a body that agrees with your soul but know this, the new hermeneutic is not new. We have been interpreting what God intends through His word since Paul wrote the letters. Some believed Paul from the beginning, many did not. This is not the last time our soul will be challenged to respond to a culture that defies the Scripture. Our culture has set its course. If we choose to vote on this, it is very possible we will be voting on something else in four years. If you try to find a body that matches everything in your soul you may end up all alone. I know I would have been OK with that but determined that was not what God
wanted me to do. Know that you have been heard. If you choose to leave, leave in peace. I will always love you and my heart is always open. I completely understand and was tempted to do the same. I have chosen to fight for unity and renewal here at Wesley and invite you to do the same.
To this end I asked the leadership to meet last night and carry the burden for us. Leadership has determined that we will not bring this to a vote here at Wesley. I understand some are very disappointed with this, I truly do. I do not think anyone should really applaud this decision. I do though believe we need to walk into tomorrow in unity. When there is a great passion around something, it can cause a divide, hurt feeling, winners and losers. I believe we are called to fulfill what Jesus prays in John 17:20-21 “ I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as You are in Me and I am in You. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that You have sent Me”
Our future as a church is as ONE and we begin the path to renewal by offering ourselves as a living sacrifice, setting ourselves aside and humbly saying, “Lord, use me as You desire.”
The Word of God is evident in its view of homosexuality. The most commonly quoted
Bible verses are Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13, which state that it is an
abomination for a man to lie with another man as he would with a woman. In Romans
1:26-27, Apostle Paul says that homosexuality is contrary to God’s natural order and
results from rejecting God. Additionally, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 lists homosexuality as
one of the sins that will prevent someone from entering the Kingdom of God. While the
Bible is clear in its view of homosexuality, it is essential to remember that God loves all
of his creation and offers forgiveness to those who repent and turn away from their sins.
Bible Verses about Homosexuality
Leviticus 18:22 ~ You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
.
Mark 10:6-9 ~ But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’
‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the
two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore
God has joined together, let not man separate.”
Leviticus 18:22-24
22 “ ‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is
detestable.
23 “ ‘Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman
must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a
perversion.
24 “ ‘Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that
I am going to drive out before you became defiled.
Leviticus 20:13
13 “ ‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them
have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their
own heads.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be
deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have
sex with men
10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the
kingdom of God.
11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you
were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. 1
Corinthians 6:17-20
17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.
18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body,
but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body.
19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom
you have received from God? You are not your own;
20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.
1 Timothy 1:8-11
8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly.
9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and
rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers
or mothers, for murderers,
10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and
liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine
11 that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he
entrusted to me.
Hebrews 13:1-5
1 Keep on loving one another as brothers and sisters.
2 Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have
shown hospitality to angels without knowing it.
3 Continue to remember those in prison as if you were together with them in prison, and
those who are mistreated as if you yourselves were suffering.
4 Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge
the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.
5 Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have,
because God has said, “Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you.”
John 8:7-11
7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any
one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.”
8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until
only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there.
10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one
condemned you?”
11 “No one, sir,” she said. “Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now
and leave your life of sin.”
Jude 1:5-8
5 Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time
delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.
6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their
proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for
judgment on the great Day.
7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves
up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer
the punishment of eternal fire.
8 In the very same way, on the strength of their dreams these ungodly people pollute
their own bodies, reject authority and heap abuse on celestial beings.
Mark 10:6-9
6 “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’
7 ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,
8 and the two will become one flesh.’So they are no longer two, but one flesh.
9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”
1 Corinthians 7:2
2 But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with
his own wife, and each woman with her own husband.
Romans 1:18-32
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and
wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness,
19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it
plain to them.
20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and
divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so
that people are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to
him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal
human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity
for the degrading of their bodies with one another.
25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created
things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women
exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.
27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were
inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and
received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God,
so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.
29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity.
They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,
30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing
evil; they disobey their parents;
31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy.
32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve
death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who
